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  • Nbajammer
    Nbajammer closed this thread because:
    Thread derailed by a user who doesn't understand that no means no.
    23:18, March 8, 2017

    Most categories should be removed from characters and pages.

    We do not need categories like:

    • Mystic Riders
    • Primary Riders
    • Slasher Riders
    • Characters portrayed by Taikawa
    • "Ghost" Characters

    Do not abuse and clutter the category section on the Wikia. First time offenders from this point will be blocked.

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    • so as of this point. some of the Riders' articles will have those aforementioned categories removed I presume.

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    • I would presume correctly.

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    • By " "Ghost" Characters " do you mean categories like "(season name) Characters" and the like?

      What about categories like "(season name) Riders"?

      Also, if the Primary Riders category is not needed, then what about the Secondary Riders and Supporting Riders category?

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    • By "Ghost Characters", I imagine they meant characters that exists as ghosts.

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    • I meant (Season) characters.

      In the infobox it lists what season they're from.

      They're also kinda listed in the main page for all characters, so why have that category? I mean I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep it, but a lot of these categories are kind of just there.

      "Riders whose powers were made for evil" is literally just the cross of fire page in a category format.

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    • Category:Ghost Riders is supposed to be Kamen Riders in the TV series called Kamen Rider Ghost, not riders who are ghosts. Like we have Category:Drive Riders, Category:Gaim Riders, Category:Wizard Riders, etc. It's the same with the wider characters categories.

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    • Really need to stop assuming.... -_-

      On it chiefs! owo7

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    • If who goes in which category is arbitrary, not defined by facts, then yes, those categories shouldn't exist. I'm wondering if Category:Secondary Riders and Category:Supporting Riders should therefore be included in this purge, along with the Primary Riders category that Ryousha linked to.

      Let's compile a list of categories to be emptied and deleted, shall we?

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    • Please add others you think need cleaning out.

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    • There was a Tertiary Rider one, or talk of one. basically any category which numbers the riders.

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    • Category:Tertiary Riders redirects to Supporting Riders.

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    • Does Robot Riders considered redundant as well?

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    • I personally think so, as they are already Non-human Riders.

      What about a Formerly-Human Riders category? That too redundant?

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    • I mean, does it matter if one is a human rider or a "monster" Rider? They're still a Kamen Rider. If you see other wikia hubs, they don't use categories for every little minor detail that nobody cares about. Categories aren't meant to be "how can we keep listing riders in different ways?". They're meant to be a page that has information and lists other pages associated with that category. Like anything Gaim-related goes under the Kamen Rider Gaim category. Any Gaim Character goes under "Gaim Characters" for ease of navigation. Our current implementation on the Wiki right now is "how can we sort a list of Riders in X amount of way because they're X slightly different". Which is why I feel like it's wrong, it's not meant to be all these descriptions.

      Look at: Kouta Kazuraba's page.

      Kamen Rider Gaim|Kamen Riders|Gaim Characters|Gaim Riders|Armored Riders|Heisei Era Riders|Neo-Heisei Era Riders|Heroes|Mystic Riders |Tech Riders|Restricted-use Riders|Beat Riders|Characters portrayed by Seiji Takaiwa|Primary Riders|Good turns evil|Evil turns good |Slasher Riders|Movie Riders|Dark Riders|Non human riders|Over Lord Inves|Tiger Monsters|Inves|Big Cat Monsters|Monsters Riders whose powers were made for evil|Revived Riders

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    • Okay, I see your point; my apologies

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    • What about Rider System? That classifies what they are in terms of powers. Joker-Man went tearing through the labels without consulting us on which could stay and which should be removed.

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    • Heheh, sorry ^^;

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    • Aldo The Fox wrote: What about Rider System? That classifies what they are in terms of powers. Joker-Man went tearing through the labels without consulting us on which could stay and which should be removed.

      That's a good point, but again - I feel like the categories are just used to "how can we sort x in y ways?" and serves no other purpose than that.


      Yeah Joker-Man, we're still discussing stuff, should've mentioned somewhere in the wall that it's a discussion/proposal. My apologies for not making it clear.

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    • Ryousha wrote:
      I mean, does it matter if one is a human rider or a "monster" Rider? They're still a Kamen Rider. If you see other wikia hubs, they don't use categories for every little minor detail that nobody cares about. Categories aren't meant to be "how can we keep listing riders in different ways?". They're meant to be a page that has information and lists other pages associated with that category. Like anything Gaim-related goes under the Kamen Rider Gaim category. Any Gaim Character goes under "Gaim Characters" for ease of navigation. Our current implementation on the Wiki right now is "how can we sort a list of Riders in X amount of way because they're X slightly different". Which is why I feel like it's wrong, it's not meant to be all these descriptions.

      Look at: Kouta Kazuraba's page.

      Kamen Rider Gaim|Kamen Riders|Gaim Characters|Gaim Riders|Armored Riders|Heisei Era Riders|Neo-Heisei Era Riders|Heroes|Mystic Riders |Tech Riders|Restricted-use Riders|Beat Riders|Characters portrayed by Seiji Takaiwa|Primary Riders|Good turns evil|Evil turns good |Slasher Riders|Movie Riders|Dark Riders|Non human riders|Over Lord Inves|Tiger Monsters|Inves|Big Cat Monsters|Monsters Riders whose powers were made for evil|Revived Riders

      Movie Riders shouldn't be on that page, it's meant for riders who are movie exclusive, or debut in a movie and make single episode appearances later. Gaim debuted in Kamen Rider Wizard's finale and has his own show, so he doesn't belong in that category.

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    • Aldo The Fox wrote: What about Rider System? That classifies what they are in terms of powers. Joker-Man went tearing through the labels without consulting us on which could stay and which should be removed.

      Rider system categories are arbitrary and should be removed. It's all guesswork at best and guesswork = speculation = not factual = not what we post. This sort of thing works better on a page than in categories, if anything. So yes those do need to go.

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    • Aldo The Fox wrote:
      What about Rider System? That classifies what they are in terms of powers. Joker-Man went tearing through the labels without consulting us on which could stay and which should be removed.

      There are four categories, says that page. But Hybrid is a redlink! Whoever typed up that page clearly doesn't agree with whoever has been adding the riders to the categories.

      Category:Transformation Belt and Category:Rider Belts sound like the same thing to me. The latter only has two items in it. Also, Rider System is ALSO the exact same thing. I propose that we merge these three pages.

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    • I agree with the merger proposal.

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    • Digifiend wrote:

      Ryousha wrote:
      I mean, does it matter if one is a human rider or a "monster" Rider? They're still a Kamen Rider. If you see other wikia hubs, they don't use categories for every little minor detail that nobody cares about. Categories aren't meant to be "how can we keep listing riders in different ways?". They're meant to be a page that has information and lists other pages associated with that category. Like anything Gaim-related goes under the Kamen Rider Gaim category. Any Gaim Character goes under "Gaim Characters" for ease of navigation. Our current implementation on the Wiki right now is "how can we sort a list of Riders in X amount of way because they're X slightly different". Which is why I feel like it's wrong, it's not meant to be all these descriptions.

      Look at: Kouta Kazuraba's page.

      Kamen Rider Gaim|Kamen Riders|Gaim Characters|Gaim Riders|Armored Riders|Heisei Era Riders|Neo-Heisei Era Riders|Heroes|Mystic Riders |Tech Riders|Restricted-use Riders|Beat Riders|Characters portrayed by Seiji Takaiwa|Primary Riders|Good turns evil|Evil turns good |Slasher Riders|Movie Riders|Dark Riders|Non human riders|Over Lord Inves|Tiger Monsters|Inves|Big Cat Monsters|Monsters Riders whose powers were made for evil|Revived Riders

      Movie Riders shouldn't be on that page, it's meant for riders who are movie exclusive, or debut in a movie and make single episode appearances later. Gaim debuted in Kamen Rider Wizard's finale and has his own show, so he doesn't belong in that category.

      Eh, we kinda kept Kouta and Kouta-Yami as one page. So people added Movie Riders for Kouta-Yami. Still, all these category additions are so random and are really just descriptions.

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    • Kouta and Kouta-Yami are the same person, just different forms. But Movie Riders does not apply to new forms, only movie-exclusive riders which Kouta is absolutely not.

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    • Right.

      All in our to do list. Do we have a general consensus to remove most of these categories listed?

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    • Digifiend wrote:
      Aldo The Fox wrote:
      What about Rider System? That classifies what they are in terms of powers. Joker-Man went tearing through the labels without consulting us on which could stay and which should be removed.
      There are four categories, says that page. But Hybrid is a redlink! Whoever typed up that page clearly doesn't agree with whoever has been adding the riders to the categories.

      Category:Transformation Belt and Category:Rider Belts sound like the same thing to me. The latter only has two items in it. Also, Rider System is ALSO the exact same thing. I propose that we merge these three pages.

      I feel a bit hurt since that page was one of my earliest creations.(as an anon no less, back when I started.)

      But if this be your decision, I won't stand in your way or debate it. Let's just get the job done.

      I was so used to the classification as it did make sense and was adopted from other fans. What if I reworded the description of "Categories" to "types" upon merger?

      I still feel some of the description in the page has merit, just not the categories. 


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    • For consulting reference and to avoid confusion, we need a master list of all the categories we think should not be used. I'd like some frame of reference for such a big job.

      For starters, you say eliminate the Rider System classifications: Tech, Bio, Mystic

      We have Transformation Belt and Transformation Gear? Should we eliminate one for then or should they both stay?

      I'm just saying it would be somewhat of a time saver if we had a list.

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    • Aldo The Fox wrote:

      We have Transformation Belt and Transformation Gear? Should we elimiate one for then or should they both stay?

      I think we should eliminate Transformation Belt, since Transformation Gear already comprises all the transformation devices, be it belt or non-belt.

      Also the information in Transformation Belt sounds a bit redundant, honestly. What's this about a "Henshin Shield"? Also why's there a need to talk about durability...

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    • Yes, I'm still working on tweaks to that... Call me sentimental.

      OK, write them down here: http://kamenrider.wikia.com/wiki/User:Aldo_The_Fox/Sandbox/Category_Blacklist

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    • This "blacklist" may end up on the Style Guide given how much the labels are abused lately.....

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    • Yeah, good idea. And we need to do the same for Rangerwiki.

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    • Huge problem - we can blacklist all we want, but that won't stop people from re-making them or making similarly-named categories. A simple list won't get the job done.

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    • We can cite that list whenever someone does keep adding them - and repeatedly doing so would warrant a block. If it's on the Style Guide, it's a rule.

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    • In theory such a list could/would grow ad nauseum, eventually reaching the point where it would be difficult if not impossible to maintain. I like the idea in principle, but it could never fully be properly executed. And as we recently have seen with KoreanDragon, DragonEmperor99 and Snutty (who I think are all the same person), mere persistence would be one of our greatest obstacles, if not the greatest.

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    • Furthermore, saying its a rule because its in the Style Guide is inefficient. I have had to hand out blocks a dime a dozen recently for repeated violations of rules 4 and 5. So no that will not deter anyone bent on doing what they want.

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    • Still, writing down the ones we need to take care of now in the above sandbox link is an option.

      That way we can get to work on eliminating them by finding the right ones and not deleting the ones we need.

      The Style guide thing was just a suggestion. After some thought, you are correct, it would get tedious and eventually be too restrictive and difficult to uphold as we would keep chasing down the labels that keep popping up.

      Best to keep watch, revert pages and block repeat offenders.

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    • I feel like we should all hop onto the Chatroom sometime tomorrow (US time) to discuss this all out.

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    • I'll be home around 5 EST tomorrow and I'm off for the weekend. Maybe later than 5 on Fri., as I might have to do some stuff beforehand.

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    • http://kamenrider.wikia.com/wiki/User:Aldo_The_Fox/Sandbox/Category_Blacklist Unused Riders? I dunno, we have a lot of concept art on the wiki. Seems unfair to list that as unnecessary, as we wish to cover all of Kamen Rider.

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    • Oh. Well, perhaps we can do something else. As is, it is only for 3 pages.

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    • I'm trying on my end at the RangerWiki to create general categories to make this all work and I know Zalbaag is trying to do the same sort of thing. While I can't speak on the KR side, it doesn't hurt to have broad enough categories that allow for some consistancy in concepts but just not go super-specific which has been a problem for a while on our side. And if anyone is willing to help or assist in this, I am willing to take suggestions.


      http://powerrangers.wikia.com/wiki/User:StrangerAtaru/Sandbox/Villain_Motifs (the work so far; some of these are super-specific sad to say but I am trying to get enough on there so broader elements can be worked out ultimately)

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    • Aldo The Fox wrote:
      I'll be home around 5 EST tomorrow and I'm off for the weekend. Maybe later than 5 on Fri., as I might have to do some stuff beforehand.

      Got it. That's 10pm my time (GMT). The chatroom here? Is that time OK with everyone?

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    • I'll probably be home about 5:30/6:00 but end up doing exercises and it gets a tad tough to get to my computer when I get home. I'll try to get on and help out if needed, unless this is about KR Wikia only.

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    • Shoot. Am currently out right now and I don't know how to use wikia chat on mobile.

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    • http://kamenrider.wikia.com/wiki/User:Aldo_The_Fox/Sandbox/Category_Blacklist

      Elimination of Blacklist Categories at 45%-50%

      Any others that I should be aware of?

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    • Should we get rid of "Riders from the past"?

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    • also, what about the "Dark Riders" although they are the same as with villains. Should that remain or removed?

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    • Remove both. Dark Riders are villains anyway and there aren't enough to really warrant a category.

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    • I agree. Dark Riders was meant for retooled/recolored Riders. Now, it seems like all "villain riders" are just thrown in that list and it doesn't serve any valid purpose.

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      • Dark Seven Legendary Riders - not needed.
      • Video Game Exclusive Characters - We have Video Game Riders.
      • Evil Doppelgangers - Not needed.
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    • I'd argue Video Game Riders would be the redundant label. Video Game Exclusive characters at least is self-explanatory

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    • Why not rename it Video Game Characters? Alwyays hated the word Exclusive when it's used on the Wiki.

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    • I think Video Game Characters would be good.

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    • Well it is fitting in this case as the characters (some of which who are not Riders) are reserved to a specific video game or simply only exist in that medium.

      But yes, renaming the Category is an option.

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    • Taking off Armored Riders as Gaim Riders has a subsection for Armored Riders. Redundant and Gaim Riders serves to fill all the Riders.

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    • Put Deceased Riders/Characters on the list. We're going to use the term "Deceased" as an umbrella for all things deceased, no need to have two categories that do the same thing.

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    • Gotcha.

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    • This might prove a hassle. Might need Digifiend's bot to do 200+ results fast. ):

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    • Ryousha wrote:
      Taking off Armored Riders as Gaim Riders has a subsection for Armored Riders. Redundant and Gaim Riders serves to fill all the Riders.

      does this apply with "New Generation Riders" too?

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    • Yeah, I already moved NGR and Bujins.

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    • Just to be clear, we are keeping the other Deceased Categories right?

      Just so we can differentiate real people from fictional?

      Deceased Actors, Deceased Crew Members

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    • I want to keep the Deceased Actors/Crew Members categories.

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    • For deceased, I propose 1 for Actors AND Crew, and 1 for everything else. Then have both categories be under Category:Deceased.

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    • I agree with Jammer.

      Yes, Aldo I would like to differentiate fictional and non-fictional people, so Jammer's plan works fine.

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    • Complete..I think, might need that bot to rummage through the pages to see if I missed any.

      http://kamenrider.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Deceased_Cast_and_Crew

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    • Seems like you're doing things, manually. Might be too much for a single person to go through 300+ pages. I'll help out, but I don't have much time on my hands.

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    • Since we got rid of the Dark/Evil Rider category, no one is objecting that I put info on them in the Villains category page? Nothing major mind you, just enough to say, "Hey, these exists; toyline says so.".

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    • Sure, no problem at all.

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    • Ummm I'm trying not to get involved but what about character allighnment. Like if their a hero, anti-hero, or villian?

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    • We are not getting rid of them if that is your worry. We just need to be careful how we label them and realize that it isn't always that black and white. Characters have more complexity these days.

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    • I know, but the last time I went to the Anti-Hero Catigory a create page link popped up asking me do I want to create the page. So is the catigory working now or is it broken. I don't really know cause I haven't clicked in about 2 years now.

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    • I think we use Category:Antiheroes instead.

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    • I'm talking about the Anti-Hero link in the info tab. It says everything inside of it was deleted.

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    • Because it was replaced with the category I mentioned above. I assume Digifiend never got around to fixing the link so it goes to the new one.

      I fixed it.

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    • Cool.

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    • This might seem like a lot of work for everyone. Well, it's been only mostly me and Aldo working on these categories lately, but...

      Neo-Heisei Era Riders ARE an extension of just Heisei-Era Riders. We do not need to list both. So I feel like we need to remove Neo-Heisei Era and accomodate them into the Heisei Era Rider Category somewhere. We don't have a "Neo-Showa" or anything, we still list black and rx as just standard Showa riders.

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    • Had to restore Category:Movie Riders. It is a category that we need and is well-defined and executed. However, I did notice that it did not really describe its intended purpose, to serve as a counterpart to Movie Sentai RangersIcon-crosswiki

      on RangerWiki. Description has been updated to better reflect this, but the riders included therein need to be gone through to determine who does and does not meet the criteria.

      Also - and this is to all admins - please do not hose categories before they can be discussed. I could have saved everyone the time and trouble on this one.

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    • Sorry about that. Thank goodness I didn't hose the entire category content and stopped partially.

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    • Category: Evil Doppelgangers...didn't we eliminate this one?

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    • Don't think so, but either way I don't view it as necessary.

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    • Evil Doppelgangers eliminated. Non Human Riders is in my list and I don't remember adding that. Is this a label we should eliminate?

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    • Yeah, there's no need to separate human and non-human Riders.

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    • Should we remove Category:Articles containing non-English-language text? It's hard-coded into Template:Lang and there's very few pages using that template.

      I'm thinking Category:Articles containing Japanese-language text as well. It's hard coded into Template:Nihongo2 and there's only one page using that template.

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    • I vote yes to both.

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    • Nihongo2 is unnecessary - just use Template:Nihongo. Lang is embedded into Nihongo2, but looking at Ryuki's page it's also used for Korean text. That's used so rarely we can probably just put the formatting required on those pages manually.

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    • In a somewhat relavent confession, I have used the Nihongo template for Arabic and Hebrew text.

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    • If it works for non kanji character sets then we can use it as a catch all for non-Roman alphabets. Removed the Help:Japanese link from it.

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    • Is there a way to hide the "{{{2}}}" portion of the nihongo template when it is not used?

      For example in here, because a parameter in the template is not filled in, the "{{{2}}}" thing appears.

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    • About Deceased, with Deceased being just one category, how is someone supposed to tell the Riders from the non-Riders ?

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    • Well the pages themselves tell which is which, just click on a character in the deceased category or look at the bottom of a page to see if the deceased label is there.

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    • This category need to be re-defined. I am not sure about whether the list is correct, like why Yukina Sawaki, Koichi Sakakibara and Akira (A.R. World) (etc.) is listed.

      Btw, the header is still displaying "of" as "Of" (e.g.), though the source code is really in lower case.

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    • Ya Aldo, but you have to open each one individually.

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    • But the entire point of the wiki is to document the show, not to provide lists. One mouse click is not hard to do and does not clutter the wiki with nonsense categories. It's not hard to click on Deceased and then on a character's name to find out if they are a rider or not. Duplicate categories are unnecessary and will not be created.

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    • Destiny Shin wrote:
      Btw, the header is still displaying "of" as "Of" (e.g.), though the source code is really in lower case.

      I see what you mean. Looks like every word in a header always starts with a capital letter. That is NOT supposed to happen. Who put the custom font in the CSS? I bet the problem has been there since that was implemented.

      Ryousha, I just did this edit, and it seems to have had no effect. Investigate why we're seeing World Of Kiva instead of World of Kiva please.

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    • Digifiend wrote:

      Ryousha, I just did this edit, and it seems to have had no effect. Investigate why we're seeing World Of Kiva instead of World of Kiva please.


      Your edit fixed the auto-capitalization problem; try forcing a refresh of the page. Not sure how to remove the custom font though.

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    • Nbajammer, what i mean is, if i want to find out which riders are deceased, without konwing the names of every rider, i have to open each and every link in Deceased, also what's so bad about having categories and lists ? They help people, for example im working on a fangame, and the different lists have really helped me out and saved me time.

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    • I encourage you to take time and make these lists by yourself, because nobody will be making a game for you. Game development require such thing as manual research. I've made a list of every villain/monster in the entire series, and nobody complained, because I never posted it in the main scope. If you need a list of all deceased riders, Category:Kamen Riders is faster to navigate. And for a fangame developer, shouldn't you already be informed about most riders anyway?

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    • Suminoma is right. We have what you need in the Deceased category. Though Kamen Riders would be faster, as there are fewer riders than overall characters. If you are doing this for a project such as a game, you have to be willing to put in the work required for it. The wiki is here to document, and that is exactly what it is doing. It is not here to make lists of everything for the convenience of having a list.

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    • Im not asking people to make lists for me, the lists existed, but were deleted, and i never said it was a Kamen Rider Fangame, it is a fangame that includes the Rider transformation devices, the info on who was deceased was actually for something else not the fangame, but still.

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    • Category:Transformation_Gear to the rescure. For everything else, again, it shouldn't take that long to read everything relevant.

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    • Space Galaxy Fourze - Today at 20:45

      But just because it doesn't take that long to read

      Doesn't mean you shouldn't organised things properly

      Just because someone wants to use it as a source, doesn't mean you should make shit harder for them

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    • We're not making such a list, and that's that. If you want to make a list of your own in your personal Sandbox, then by all means. But if you're not willing to put in some work, then I guess it isn't important to you. We're not going to keep going in circles over this, therefore thread closed.

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